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ZIRCON : ANy comments...Dr. Stuart A. WeinsteinEwa Beach Institute of Tectonics"To err is human, but to really foul things up requires a creationist"Bigdakine wrote: Impossible to evaluate from the information given. Is Gentryclaiming that the granite formation is millions of years old?After all, it could be a fairly recent pluton -- especiallyin New Mexico, which IIRC is overriding a hot spot.What do dating tests give for the age? It doesn't matter ifGentry doesn't think the dating tests are valid. The pointis, if the dating tests give a young age, then there is noproblem with explaining the results according to standardscience. Pardon the piggybacking, but a core hole 3 MILES deep in GRANITE? Why would anyonedrill such an enormously expensive hole in the first place. I smell a misquote orsomething. It could have been for geothermal prospecting, or, more likely, something to do with the potential for nuclear waste storage. I also vaguely recall an effort to drill through some thick granitoids somewhere (on the eastern fringes of the Sierra Nevada range maybe?) on the presumption that they had been thrust over a sedimentary basin that was considered prospective for hydrocarbons.
ZIRCON : From: ()Subject: Re: Creationist Zircon argument Newsgroups: Date: 1999/12/20 Andrew MacRae wrote:After writing my comment, I remembered the nuclear waste storage effort, butI can't remember them drilling anything that deep. They were more interestedin something that could be turned into a shallow (relatively speaking)repository.Arrrggghhh!!! My favorite project. We had one of those in the eastern US. The(in)famous overthrust oil belt! A bunch of geologists were convinced that themetamorphic front fault was a really big overthrust fault and that deep underall those granites and gneisses were big pools of oil waiting to be tapped. Ithink the oil bust of the early 1980's finally killed that one off.I obtained this second hand. I would've figured that the pluton perhaps otherindependent means showing it was old. But of course I wouldn't put thepossibility that it was a young pluton past Gentry..
ZIRCON : (i) After the zircons cool, the rate at which He can diffuse from thezircon drops. This causes a build up of He inside the zircon.(ii) As the He builds up inside the zircon, the actual amount of He thatdiffuses increases.(iii) After a period of time which ranges from a few dozen to a fewthousand years, the zircon becomes 'saturated', as the amount of Hediffusing rises to match the amount being produced, and equilibrium isreached.(iv) The amount of He that can be retained by the zircon before itbecomes saturated is dependent on the temperature of the zircon; thecolder the zircon is, the more He it can retain.(v) The amount of He in the zircons examined shows that they must havehad a temperature of -196C.This is where Humphreys stops. However, the argument can continue:(vi) Since the zircons reach equilibrium in a relatively short time,examining the amount of He in the crystals cannot be used to determinetheir age, but only their former temperature (-196C).
ZIRCON : (vii) However, the interior of the earth is hot and, and the crystalscan never have attained such a low temperature (they were in fact foundat locations with temperatures > 100C)..(viii) Therefore, the crystals cannot have formed naturally, since if sothey would have started with no He and could never have reached thecurrent level of He, but must have been created containing more He thanthey currently have, and are approaching equilibrium from the otherdirection.(ix) Therefore the earth is sufficiently young that none of the zirconshave had time to even remotely approach He equilibrium.(x) Therefore either- the earth is less than a few dozen years old*, or- Humphreys' argument is wrong*I haven't actually done any calculations to determine how long it wouldtake to reach equilibrium if the zircons started with absurdly highquantities of He; this value is based on Humphreys' estimate of the timerequired to reach equilibrium. However, if they could reach equilibriumin a few dozen years starting with no He, then to avoid reachingequilibrium in several thousand years I suspect they must have startedwith so much He in them that the zircons would not have been stable.
ZIRCON : "Our zircon data agree with recently published data from another site,9 and both agree with our 'Creation' model. The data allow us to calculate how long diffusion has been taking place--between 4,000 and 14,000 years! The diffusion rates are nearly 100,000 times higher than the maximum rates the "Evolution" model could allow. That leaves no hope for the 1.5 billion years. For most of that alleged time, the zircons would have to have been as cold as liquid nitrogen (196°C below zero) to retain the observed amount of helium. Such a 'cryogenic Earth' model would not help uniformitarians, because it would violate uniformitarianism!" "9. P. W. Reiners, K. A. Farley, and H. J. Hickes, 'He diffusion and (U-Th)/He thermochronometry of zircon: Initial results from Fis Canyon Tuff and Gold Butte, Nevada,' Tectonophysics 349(1-4):297- 308, 2002."
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